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 Post subject: Tech Tree
PostPosted: 10 Apr 2006 12:30 
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Though we could have separate thread to discuss technology and tech tree issues.

If not Thos can always delete :AH


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PostPosted: 10 Apr 2006 12:37 
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Lance Corporal ... WOOT ... Going well :bl

Anyway here is the Tech Tree for Twilight Era

As per .biq ... I'm assuming that the Blue Boxes (unique Civ specific Pre-Techs) are not shown,

Image


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PostPosted: 10 Apr 2006 13:40 
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Werner, yeah the civ specific techs only show to the civ that has recieved them. Good job my friend. But looking at it I think I am going to link Metallurgy as one of constructions required techs. Been reading up on the subject and lots of construction items required breakthroughs in metallurgy.

Any thoughts?

Also we need shitloads more techs for this era to I am beginning to think. :bs

_________________
Benno the Mad Wrote:
man, you gotta realise that thor and bos fell out of the patriot tree (like the ugly tree, but instills patriotism instead of ugly) and hit every branch on the way down.


"Gone now, dispersed by the brutal destruction of this one day, was the belief that the Darkman and his army of the dead were so superior as to be invincible. By attempting to destroy the morale of the Marines, the Darkman had restored it to full vigor. Dia De La Muerto had failed in its objectives."
The Gunny: Stand of the 300

Si vis pacem, para bellum
If you want peace, prepare for war

Gunny's color #FF2400


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PostPosted: 10 Apr 2006 15:55 
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Here is a couple of ideas I have been running through my head for tech additions. Just basic chains not thought of what would hook into what beyond the chain.


Gunpowder manufacturing > Bullet Manufacturing > Reloading > Semi Auto > Automatic > Heavy Machine Guns > Light Machine Guns > Assault Rifles > Mini Guns.

Tanning > Leather Curing > Chainsmithing > Partial Plate > Full Plate > Synthetic Combat Armors > Semi Powered Combat Armors > Early Powered Armors > TA51B Powered Armor > Powered Armor Mk II

Laser Weapon Theory > Powered Laser Defenses > Laser Miniturization Breakthrough > Bulky Laser Rifles > Laser Rifles > Laser Pistols > Plasma Weapon Theory > Powered Plasma Defenses > Plasma Miniturization Breakthrough > Bulky Plasma Rifles > Plasma Rifles > Plasma Pistols


Thoughts?

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Benno the Mad Wrote:
man, you gotta realise that thor and bos fell out of the patriot tree (like the ugly tree, but instills patriotism instead of ugly) and hit every branch on the way down.


"Gone now, dispersed by the brutal destruction of this one day, was the belief that the Darkman and his army of the dead were so superior as to be invincible. By attempting to destroy the morale of the Marines, the Darkman had restored it to full vigor. Dia De La Muerto had failed in its objectives."
The Gunny: Stand of the 300

Si vis pacem, para bellum
If you want peace, prepare for war

Gunny's color #FF2400


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PostPosted: 11 Apr 2006 07:27 
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It's good to have logical research progressions.

One question ... can alternative tiles be used for the same tech?

I'm thinking if the Bots Tech Tree were viewed ... it would be good that a different Box would be displayed?

I see their view of the world wildly different and their tech tree would be more of upgrading older systems to work more efficiently.

Like their scavenger market would be more a point which allows interface with the humans.

Bone Library more a data storage bank.


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PostPosted: 11 Apr 2006 09:45 
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Werner, unforunately we can use only one set of gfx, but I had in mind in doing an entire set of unique buildings for the Bots. Since they are quite unique.

And if you tie in the techs to the civ specific tech only the Bots get, then the techs will ONLY show up to them. That was the reason why I gave each civ a civ specific tech. So we could tailor the techs to have your basic techs everyone can research and then have the civ specific techs only they can research.

By all means, if you can think of names for the bot buildings, suggest away. :bs

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Benno the Mad Wrote:
man, you gotta realise that thor and bos fell out of the patriot tree (like the ugly tree, but instills patriotism instead of ugly) and hit every branch on the way down.


"Gone now, dispersed by the brutal destruction of this one day, was the belief that the Darkman and his army of the dead were so superior as to be invincible. By attempting to destroy the morale of the Marines, the Darkman had restored it to full vigor. Dia De La Muerto had failed in its objectives."
The Gunny: Stand of the 300

Si vis pacem, para bellum
If you want peace, prepare for war

Gunny's color #FF2400


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PostPosted: 11 Apr 2006 10:09 
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So I guess the question is ... provided that there are no situations where they are to be displayed at the same time, can two (or more) separate tech boxes occupy the same position in the tech tree screen.


If it is possible ... then we have no problem :mrgreen:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 11 Apr 2006 10:23 
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Werner, yup that is possible, as the the tech willonly show to one civ, the one with the base required civ specific tech.

_________________
Benno the Mad Wrote:
man, you gotta realise that thor and bos fell out of the patriot tree (like the ugly tree, but instills patriotism instead of ugly) and hit every branch on the way down.


"Gone now, dispersed by the brutal destruction of this one day, was the belief that the Darkman and his army of the dead were so superior as to be invincible. By attempting to destroy the morale of the Marines, the Darkman had restored it to full vigor. Dia De La Muerto had failed in its objectives."
The Gunny: Stand of the 300

Si vis pacem, para bellum
If you want peace, prepare for war

Gunny's color #FF2400


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 14 Apr 2006 06:00 
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I found this while going through Tutorials in the Creation and Customisation forum in CFC.

Thought it may help when ordering the tech tree ... it depicts the grid lines to place the tech boxes on the Science screen.

<Snip Snip Snip ... removed grid image>
KILL KILL KILL ... THRILL THRILL THRILL ...
GET YOURSELF A GUN ... HAVE YOURSELF SOME FUN
... Sacred Cows (episode of Get Smart) ... redone by Painter's and Dockers (great Aussie Indi Band) :bs


I will now go about fixing the one in the game.

EDIT ... removed the grid as it is not true to our tech box ... :AM


Last edited by fe3333au on 14 Apr 2006 10:09, edited 4 times in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 14 Apr 2006 09:14 
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Werner, good job and keep up the good work. :br

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Benno the Mad Wrote:
man, you gotta realise that thor and bos fell out of the patriot tree (like the ugly tree, but instills patriotism instead of ugly) and hit every branch on the way down.


"Gone now, dispersed by the brutal destruction of this one day, was the belief that the Darkman and his army of the dead were so superior as to be invincible. By attempting to destroy the morale of the Marines, the Darkman had restored it to full vigor. Dia De La Muerto had failed in its objectives."
The Gunny: Stand of the 300

Si vis pacem, para bellum
If you want peace, prepare for war

Gunny's color #FF2400


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 14 Apr 2006 10:03 
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OK Draft ... First Era Tech Tree

Brotherhood of Steel
Image

The Entity
Image

Enclave
Image

I had to post three screens to show the position of ALL the various tech boxes available.

Have to workout how to add arrows.

These will be tweeked and it is rough ... but you get the idea.

Here are the coodinates for the boxes.
Iron Working (100,80)
Metallurgy (350,80)
Fortification (100,180)
Construction (350,180)
Engineering (600,180)
Neural Net Processor, Brotherhood Training, NCR Rangers (100,275)
Scavenging (100,375)
Barter (350,375)
Currency (600,375)
Medicine (800,425)
Chemistry (100,475)
FEV Virus (800,550)
Genetic Tailoring (350,525)
Genetics (100,585)
Deathclaw Engineering (350,610)

Not Shown as it is a pre-Technology specific to the Civ.
Enclave Tech, BOS Tech, NCR Tech, Mutant Tech, Enclave Tech (0,0)

Comments ...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 14 Apr 2006 10:34 
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Werner, looks good. But you will have to leave Lots of space for the new techs. Since the mod is 1000 turns long, we need shitloads of techs. I am working on more chains right now.

As to be honest, these civs are WAY too advanced to have just went through a nuke war. How many city dwellers know how to farm? And I don't mean mechanized farming, but the Horse and Plow routine? Who knows how to make an old threshing machine run by horses? You see where I am getting at? :bs

My thoughts on how the eras should progress is the first era is for surviving and recovering what I call lost tech, tech that would allow them to begin the process of survival.

the second era is for beginning the expansion of exploration and recovery of pre-war tech and begin modest advances into medium tech.

the third era is for when they begin the serious process of expansion and reclaiming the wastes. the fourth era was the one where high tech and civ conflicts would begin.

And now that I have found out HOW to make the initial units do what I wanted them to, I can add back in all those wonderful barb camps I had removed before. :twisted:


Thoughts and comments?

_________________
Benno the Mad Wrote:
man, you gotta realise that thor and bos fell out of the patriot tree (like the ugly tree, but instills patriotism instead of ugly) and hit every branch on the way down.


"Gone now, dispersed by the brutal destruction of this one day, was the belief that the Darkman and his army of the dead were so superior as to be invincible. By attempting to destroy the morale of the Marines, the Darkman had restored it to full vigor. Dia De La Muerto had failed in its objectives."
The Gunny: Stand of the 300

Si vis pacem, para bellum
If you want peace, prepare for war

Gunny's color #FF2400


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 14 Apr 2006 11:02 
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I agree with spacing.

My thoughts were to fix the version that is being tested atm ... so it can be properly used ... and then when we goto the next stage we can revamp the whole thing.

... or do you want me to start squishing now?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 14 Apr 2006 11:13 
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That is your choice my friend, if you don't mind adjusting after each update, then leave them where they are.

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Benno the Mad Wrote:
man, you gotta realise that thor and bos fell out of the patriot tree (like the ugly tree, but instills patriotism instead of ugly) and hit every branch on the way down.


"Gone now, dispersed by the brutal destruction of this one day, was the belief that the Darkman and his army of the dead were so superior as to be invincible. By attempting to destroy the morale of the Marines, the Darkman had restored it to full vigor. Dia De La Muerto had failed in its objectives."
The Gunny: Stand of the 300

Si vis pacem, para bellum
If you want peace, prepare for war

Gunny's color #FF2400


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 14 Apr 2006 11:20 
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My choice ?!! ... Okey Dokey :AH

Well I think fix it now ... and add to next patch so it is fixed ... then we can really work on it.

What is the best way to get info of box coords to you ...

post here?
PM you?
send the .biq?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 14 Apr 2006 11:48 
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Post the Coords here, that way I can check them off as I finish them. And you all can keep track of what 'fearless leader' is up to. :bs

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Benno the Mad Wrote:
man, you gotta realise that thor and bos fell out of the patriot tree (like the ugly tree, but instills patriotism instead of ugly) and hit every branch on the way down.


"Gone now, dispersed by the brutal destruction of this one day, was the belief that the Darkman and his army of the dead were so superior as to be invincible. By attempting to destroy the morale of the Marines, the Darkman had restored it to full vigor. Dia De La Muerto had failed in its objectives."
The Gunny: Stand of the 300

Si vis pacem, para bellum
If you want peace, prepare for war

Gunny's color #FF2400


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 14 Apr 2006 12:37 
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Small Error found ... Era II

Tech pre-requisite for Methanol Engines is Steel and Small Engine Repair ... :AE My Posting TYPO!! - should read Methanol Extraction
Tech pre-requisite for Small Engine Repair is already Steel and Methanol Extraction


Similarly, Radiation Tampering requires Data Retrival and Applied Physics
While Radiation Magnet requires Radiation Tampering and Applied Physics

and finally both Jet and the next tech, Jet Distribution require New Reno Mobs


So should removed from .biq rules :AH



Thought about Arrows
Considering the complicated Tech Tree in Era II ... there are many rechs that are advanced but still require first and second level knowledge ... wondering if we really require arrows ???

Reason ... all pre-requisite techs are automatically shown when a technology is highlighted.


Jet Distribution had the Espionage pedia entry


Last edited by fe3333au on 14 Apr 2006 13:59, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 14 Apr 2006 13:20 
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Werner, those are not errors. Look closely at them.

Methanol Engines is DIFFERENT From Methanol EXTRACTION. :bs

And what is wrong with two techs requiring one of the techs that are the same? There are different disciplines in Physics you know. :w

Yup, sure do, that is to make sure they are never gotten by another civ. :bs


If they have a first or second era tech req, then don't worry about arrows for those. :AH

Yeah the civ and pediaicon txt files need lots of work. Just list the txt errors in the txt thread.

_________________
Benno the Mad Wrote:
man, you gotta realise that thor and bos fell out of the patriot tree (like the ugly tree, but instills patriotism instead of ugly) and hit every branch on the way down.


"Gone now, dispersed by the brutal destruction of this one day, was the belief that the Darkman and his army of the dead were so superior as to be invincible. By attempting to destroy the morale of the Marines, the Darkman had restored it to full vigor. Dia De La Muerto had failed in its objectives."
The Gunny: Stand of the 300

Si vis pacem, para bellum
If you want peace, prepare for war

Gunny's color #FF2400


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 14 Apr 2006 13:48 
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Tech pre-requisite for Methanol EXTRACTION is Steel and Small Engine Repair
Tech pre-requisite for Small Engine Repair is already Steel and Methanol Extraction


sorry :AE typo ... check the .biq big boy :w


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 14 Apr 2006 13:58 
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So you made the goof in reporting it. :bs


EDIT: Looking at the biq, now. Methanol EXTRACTION has NO pre reqs,

Small Engine Repair has Steel and Methanol Extraction as reqs

Methanol Engines has Small Engine Repair and Steel as reqs.


So I am lost, where is the mistkae in that chain at? :AC

_________________
Benno the Mad Wrote:
man, you gotta realise that thor and bos fell out of the patriot tree (like the ugly tree, but instills patriotism instead of ugly) and hit every branch on the way down.


"Gone now, dispersed by the brutal destruction of this one day, was the belief that the Darkman and his army of the dead were so superior as to be invincible. By attempting to destroy the morale of the Marines, the Darkman had restored it to full vigor. Dia De La Muerto had failed in its objectives."
The Gunny: Stand of the 300

Si vis pacem, para bellum
If you want peace, prepare for war

Gunny's color #FF2400


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 14 Apr 2006 14:15 
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Era IV ...

Similar doubling up of pre-requisites

Satellite Uplink ... required Television

But Home Shopping requires Satellite Uplink and also Television

But these are just little things that do not effect the actual game play ... I think :w

But I have now finished ordering ALL Eras ... and will begin the box coordination.

Antiscipate completing in couple days ... have to get up early and get all the eggs my neighbours hide for their kids :gl


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PostPosted: 14 Apr 2006 14:20 
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Thorgrimm wrote:
So you made the goof in reporting it. :bs


EDIT: Looking at the biq, now. Methanol EXTRACTION has NO pre reqs,

Small Engine Repair has Steel and Methanol Extraction as reqs

Methanol Engines has Small Engine Repair and Steel as reqs.


So I am lost, where is the mistkae in that chain at? :AC


It's late so I thought my short hand would work.

My point is that you have doubled up on Steel ... it is not required as pre-requisite for Methanol Engines, as it is already required for Small Engine Repair. :AH


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 14 Apr 2006 14:26 
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Ok, so no problem then. As it is ok. :bs Yeah I am sure it is quite late in the land down under. :bs

_________________
Benno the Mad Wrote:
man, you gotta realise that thor and bos fell out of the patriot tree (like the ugly tree, but instills patriotism instead of ugly) and hit every branch on the way down.


"Gone now, dispersed by the brutal destruction of this one day, was the belief that the Darkman and his army of the dead were so superior as to be invincible. By attempting to destroy the morale of the Marines, the Darkman had restored it to full vigor. Dia De La Muerto had failed in its objectives."
The Gunny: Stand of the 300

Si vis pacem, para bellum
If you want peace, prepare for war

Gunny's color #FF2400


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PostPosted: 15 Apr 2006 07:16 
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In lieu of the great leaders orders to complete by Monday :at

I submit the following coordinates for the tech trees era I - IV

ERA I
Iron Working (100,80)
Metallurgy (350,80)
Fortification (100,180)
Construction (350,180)
Engineering (600,180)
Neural Net Processor, Brotherhood Training, NCR Rangers (100,275)
Scavenging (100,375)
Barter (350,375)
Currency (600,375)
Medicine (800,425)
Chemistry (100,475)
FEV Virus (800,550)
Genetic Tailoring (350,525)
Genetics (100,585)
Deathclaw Engineering (350,610)


ERA II
Banking (70,80)
Economics (200,80)
Methanol Extraction (70,180)
Small Engine Repair (240,180)
Methanol Engines (420,180)
Law of the Road (560,160)
Virtual Reality (70,270)
Virtual Reality Playroom (670,250)
Steel (70,350)
Electricity (240,330)
Electronics (420,310)
Neutrino Deflection (670,340)
Physics (70,440)
Applied Physics (200,440)
Nutrient Synthesis (520,440)
Pharmacology (700,440)
Milstores Reclamation (310,460)
Radiation Magnet (520,520)
Reverse Engineering (70,620)
Data Retrieval (200,620)
Holotape Datastorage (310,550)
Jet (600,600)
Jet Distribution (750,600)
Radiation Tampering (310,630)
Toxic Waste Processing (520,630)


ERA III
Boating (70,80)
Steam Power (70,160)
Steam Engine (310,160)
Flight (310,230)
Combustion (70,230)
Motorized Transportation (310,310)
Replacement Parts (70,310)
Pre-War Production Tech (70,390)
Radio (70,470)
Military Ordanance (70,545)
Hyperalloy Armor (310,540)
Laser Weapons (520,570)
Fusion Power (680,570)
Infrared Tracking (70,640)


ERA IV
Computers (70,100)
Nuclear Power (70,170)
Ecology (70,240)
Recycling (310,240)
Polyalloy Armor (70,320)
Plasma Weapons (310,340)
Geothermal Power (70,400)
Countermeasures (70,490)
EMP Manipulation (310,440)
Television (70,600)
Satellite Uplink (310,600)
Home Shopping (530,600)




I'm not totally happy however it will surfice considering that the entire tech tree is to be reworked.

Post any problems on this thread :mrgreen:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 15 Apr 2006 13:22 
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My point is that you have doubled up on Steel ... it is not required as pre-requisite for Methanol Engines, as it is already required for Small Engine Repair.
...Werner, what seems to be redundant or superfluous here is actually not. It is more a matter of directly stating a required resource for each thing...even though the one thing requires another thing which has one of the same Resource requirements, both can require the same resource and in reality do. Sort of like requiring Wood and wood working to build a Home and also requiring wood for wood working...in both cases it is true. Methanol Engines are made of Steel and to repair them you need Steel as well. Guess a way of looking at this is....Methanol Engines are First Manufactured from Steel, then they need to be able to be repaired as needed, which also requires Steel.

The way I see it, IF Methanol Engines were "Repaired" into existance, rather than manufactured, and the Only thing that Small Engine Repair would allow to be done with this knowledge is Repair into existance Methanol Engines, then Steel would not be a Requirement for both. :bl

...speedy work on the List :AH

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